At Audiotuts+ we irregularly put up a reader track for workshopping and critique (find out how to submit a track). This is how it works: you upload your song, and every couple of weeks we'll publish one here and step away from the podium. The floor is yours to talk about the track and how the artist can fix problems in and improve upon the mix and the song. This one's The Frozen Rose by Excellion.
There are a couple of rules:
- Friendly, constructive criticism. We’re talking about people’s creative work, and anyone who is destructive and offensive will find their comments deleted — if they slip through moderation, let’s just hope we can catch them before the artist comes around to see your feedback. Negative constructive criticism is welcome. Since we’re only weeding out the offensive stuff, you only get one shot — if you use the comment box to insult people, you’ll find yourself unable to comment at AUDIOTUTS again.
- These comment threads can get pretty darn long. Have a quick read-through of the feedback that’s already been given, and try not to double-up too much.
Easy rules for civilized people to follow.
Without further ado…
The Frozen Rose by Excellion
Excellion writes: “this is a song that the band has been working on, for the EP."
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Have a listen to the track and offer your constructive criticism for this Workshop in the comments section.
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User Comments
( ADD YOURS )Joel Falconer May 12th
Overall, a nice job, Excellion! Some constructive comments for your consideration…
Instruments are competing for attention at times, making the sound a bit too busy. I particularly noticed this with the bass guitar — have the bass guitar play more or less notes depending on how many other instruments are dominating the sound at a time.
Some of the synthesized instruments need some processing to sound more in place, perhaps starting with some reverb.
I did hear a couple of harmonic clashes and once or twice I noticed the drums falling out of time. Always pays to go over the little things again, even though there is nothing more headache-inducing than recording metal drum kit. I have done it enough times to feel your pain. As one old-hat engineer once told me, “you’ll cringe when you hear those little mistakes for decades to come — it’s worth spending a few hours just to fix a few seconds of music.”
I do think the production as a whole is pretty great, vocals were done particularly well, and the piece has some great potential with a bit of spit and polish.
( )Adrian Villavicencio - Bass (Excellion) May 13th
Hi Joel!
first of all, thanks for posting the song and have the chance to
get the opinion of all of you guys!!
now to work!…
can you tell me the exact time of those timing issues?…
thanks for listening!
( )kev on music May 12th
couldn’t listen to all of it
( )Adrian Villavicencio - Bass (Excellion) May 13th
thank you for give it a try!…
( )Harry May 12th
neither could i, not really my thing
( )Kenneth Ballenegger May 12th
It’s excellent… until the vocals come in. This would work much better as an instrumental-only track.
( )Adrian Villavicencio - Bass (Excellion) May 13th
hey! thanks for listening!
you dont like the vocals or just think it would be better instrumental?
cheers!
( )Gabriel May 13th
Some work on Guitar tone would make the track seem more compelling.
Sounds a bit too fizzy and digital, Mic in front of Tube amp would fix this – but is expensive.
In general on the structure of the song, try some dynamics, it felt like too much of the same after not too long.
( )Adrian Villavicencio - Bass (Excellion) May 13th
hey, thanks for listening! I would think that already, but everyone in the band thinks the structure is ok as it is, maybe after two listenings or more it will start to sound in your head
thanks for your comment!
cheers!
( )Gabriel May 14th
Probably right, I only had time to listen once.
It’s a great song achievement, lots of work is really evident.
Derek Mounce May 13th
First thing I’m noticing is that there’s more reverb on the vocals that anywhere else, which is shoving them way into the background when they probably shouldn’t be. The volume has picked up, but the intro of the vocals was a bit lost.
Seems like, to some extent, the song’s getting progressively louder –oh, yes. As I’m typing this it’s layer on top of layer cutting each other off –which is fine, just do some ducking. You can create the illusion of things getting louder with very subtle changes in the mix and dropping the volume of other tracks as the “solo” or what comes in. I actually had to just turn the volume down… a lot… when the vocals came in a second time.
I’ve noticed a few things are a bit off-center when they’re wanting to be dead-smack-middle. One of the solos (a synth I believe), for example, was panning pretty strongly to the left and I kept shaking my head to the right to try and make it roll over into center.
Everyone always says “spread your mix out, make it wide” to give it space. That’s great, but at the same time, you can’t have it *all* spread out, otherwise there’s no focus. You dealt with this really nicely right around 1:20, where the song quiets for a moment with that chorussy guitar; the drums spread out to the left and right, while is straight in the middle. Do that everywhere else too.
The drums are pretty heavily compressed, which yeah, for this genre I’d say is appropriate. But it’s too strong on crash and some of the cymbals. Depending on how you recorded, you hopefully have it as a separate track you can adjust on it’s own. If not, slap a multi-band compressor on there and lighten up on that frequency range.
And overall, open things up a little with some verb. You’ve done a good job avoiding the typical problem of adding too much reverb to *everything* but perhaps too much. The drums particularly, toss them back in the mix a ways. It’ll do a lot to give the song a little breathing space –which I don’t care what genre, you need.
Just one final thing, watch your bass frequencies on the kick especially. Can’t tell for sure, but sounds like there could be problems in the super low freqs.
Hope that was helpful! You definitely did a good job with the mix –you got a lot of things right. These are just details.
( )Adrian Villavicencio - Bass (Excellion) May 13th
:O ok! thats was really a nice review on the song, it seems that you used headphones!
nice!…
thanks for your opinion, I’ll give it a shot!
thank you for listening!
( )Formatt May 13th
file not found?? might need a re-upload
( )Formatt May 13th
working now…
*would love to hear some massive reverb on the drum hits at the beginning
*vocal entry is nice
*tempo change…would like to hear something leading to that, sounded to me like it just started rushing
*like vocal harmonies
*overall I agree that the instruments are just a bit too busy. Maybe go over the track and pick some of your favorite licks throughout the instruments and use them more often rather than something new every time. Read up on Ryan Leach’s rule of three haha
Nice song guys
( )Adrian Villavicencio - Bass (Excellion) May 13th
hey! :O
you know?… I liked your idea about reverb on the drums :O it would sound really nice!! thanks!
I think I got an idea of what you’re saying about instruments too busy, but if you listen again, you can realize theres riff that repeats, it has an structure and almost every verse and chorus its played the same as the first time, anyway we just thought and make some dinamics in the song to no make it predictable.
actually every one of our songs sounds different, each one offers something different, give us a try!
http://www.myspace.com/xcellion
cheers! and thanks for your time
Dan May 13th
The sound quality of the instruments, I liked, however, I believe some of your timing was off. The drums and the main guitar rif either didn’t match up 100% of the time or by themselves, at times, were times wrong. And that was just within the first 45 secs. I hope you can take this criticsm as just that, and make the song better from it.
( )Adrian Villavicencio - Bass (Excellion) May 13th
Hi!, thank you for takin time to review the song!
can you please tell me exactly what parts are you talking about?
because we try to take care of timing a lot! its something really important in the music we play as every part have its timing counted by metronome :O.
thanks and cheers!
( )VicDiesel May 15th
Pretty good stuff overall.
The intro is kinda long, making me suspect that it’s an instrumental, and then the vocal comes in. Shorter intro, please!
When the vocal comes in, it’s too soft. Later on it picks up in volume and it sounds good to me.
You have a good singer, but sometimes he’s a little off. That note at 2:11 could use some auto-tuning.
The mix in general sounds good to me, except for the bass being weak. Sometimes it almost drops out.
I stopped listening at the 3 minute mark, because this is really not my taste. Make sure you actually have enough material for 6 minutes!
( )Josh May 25th
I normally don’t listen to this type of metal, but definitely some parts that made me genuinely smile. The instrumental break with the bass fills was very cool, liked it a lot. I think the thing that this mix could most benefit from is a better guitar tone. It is this type of tone that lets down a lot of recordings, that fizzy digital sound. Its not as apparent on the solos, but the rhythms could really enhance the recordings with a better sound. How are you recording these guitars? I know someone has suggested a tube amp but most modellers I’ve encountered can get a better sound than is on this. One thing I would suggest is replacing the cab simulation with an IR of a mic’d cab. A good resource for some of these/plus how-tos is Andy Sneap’s forum on Ultimate Metal. I can just see the mix having a lot of power this way. Drum and Bass tones are good for me.
( )Adrian Villavicencio - Bass (Excellion) July 1st
hey! :O thanks man!
( )sorry for answer so late, maybe you won’t be reading this
but I really aprecciate your comments all the stuff you its
worth checking, thank you again!
Graham May 26th
Firstly I think it is a great track, well written and performed. I agree with comments made about the long intro. I also thought I was listening to an instrumental (and a good one at that!!) at first – but I don’t necessarily think this is a drama depending on your situation. It would work well at a live performance for example.
The main thing I could think of to improve is punching out the drums a bit more – they may be competing with a lot happening in the lower freqs. My ear was straining trying to appreciate them. I know they are hard to tune and mic just right, but I would even consider adding samples shots on top if I had to get it to a commercial-ready state, and if the EQ’ing didn’t work and you weren’t willing to try again with some different mic placements etc. The drums, although well played, are just a bit “weak” in the mix and could do with some more prominence. The toms pan around nicely, but the kick and the snare could do with a bit more to come through and hold it all together. I suspect work on the drums would pay off very well for you.
Guitar sounded fine to me except I would check that it is not competing with the bass, drum and synths around that 120-160hz mark. Awesome vocals happening – I am sure you guys would be great to see live.
( )Adrian Villavicencio - Bass (Excellion) July 1st
I agree with the guitars… I’ll check that later.
Thanks for your critics man! we’re trying the best to write even better music, and theres new members on the band that will make this possible in awesome ways.
we’re almost ready to release another song of the band, hope you like, come check us!
http://www.myspace.com/xcellion
( )dogboy July 26th
hello,can give you few opinion about your track.
First of all,the low end is a bit muddy you should clean it up a bit.For the drums ,it miss a bit of air(12 to 16 khz on the overhead to give some transient sit more in the mix)
The voice level need to be tracked down by fader to raise an homogene level(the beginin is low and then it comes ok)
And at last but this is personnal ,don’t like the kind of exciter on the mix ,sort of light overdrive on the overall that crush the precision of low end
Hope it ll help you and keep the hard work mate
Dogboy
( )